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uman Powered Trails, Inc. is a non-profit organization whose mission is: “To develop and maintain first class sustainable and environmentally correct, human-powered, shared use trails for the La Crosse, WI region."
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| Super D Wrap Up |
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| Written by Jed Olson | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Tuesday, 24 August 2010 14:05 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Thanks to all who showed up to race and help out with Sunday's Kash For Klunking Super D race! It was great to see some new faces as well as much of last years podium winners. The racing action was hot and heavy all afternoon... but there's nothing you can do about the weather. We were disappointed to have only one female competitor again this year...but at least it was a different female than last year. Jen Whitedog had two quick runs which would have had her placing in the Men's Beginer category. LADIES: we just end up throwing the rest of the prize money in the trash, so please come out and claim your share in the future. In the Men's Beginner class, Luke Schuttenhelm royally brought by destroying his bike in the first round, stealing a bike out of the pits, and besting his previous time and the rest of the competition. The podium was rounded out by two other loyal HPT volunteers, Dave Lawrence and Robbie Young. The jockeying and battling continued in the Men's Open class with epic warfare between local spandex clad hammerheads and baggy pants out-of-towners. Returning dominant champion Eric Pueschner, Kevin Weivada, and Thor Shellum ran times within a quarter minute all day, but it was a nail biter's ball as the finish times were calculated and they all finished within 5 seconds. When it was all said and done, and the trail (and hike out) had taken it's toll on everyone, Thor ended up with the big envelope of cash followed by Eric and Kevin respectively. Kevin is also able to pay some additional bills with the $50 he brought home for posting the fastest time of any BEER racer (Eric doesn't count). Check out some race footage posted up by Corey on YouTube: Thanks Corey. If you watch close you'll see our top three fastest riders all off their bikes. Thor pushed up hills and Eric and Kevin ran down rocks...just kinda funny. Thanks again to all racers, fans, and volunteers. Click Read More for RESULTS... 
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Comments (22)
UpSideDownBiker
said:
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... Will there be repair to the trail damage left behind by the poorly designed re-route of sections from the Super D? Or will it be left behind like the other sections from last seasons Super D? Nice to have such an event. But at the cost of creating damage, an eyesore, stick trails, permanent pink paint on logs, trail markings left behind, errosion issues, poor bench cutting, exposed roots, and more... I guess as a founding member of the trail system I'm saddened by what it has become. |
ibjed
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... As we prepared for this year's and last year's super D, we wanted to improve the trail we used for the course so there'd actually be less damage to the trail under the higher speeds and use seen with that type of riding. There were a few sections that didn't have an "easy fix" and that still need some more attention. Overall I feel the positive changes made to the trail outweigh the pieces that still need work/improvement. What specific areas do you see the need to repair? Thanks for your input. |
UpSideDownBiker
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... Hmm... Specifically. Since you asked. I have photos of the erosion issues that it caused just after the race. The first large berm that was made only increased the speed of riders into the next corner that the Super D did not use causing people to skid. The corner was changed but changed back into a corner that now is just as worthless. The original was the best option. The section on what was a straight just after it is horrible. You have now created an area that has two sections of water flowing down into a low spot that is now getting chewed up. The original was closed off using sticks. That is purely amateur hour and an embarrassment to those that have built trial out there properly. Now the "New" line is left while someone attempted to close the old section. You will have water pooling in there and it will cause more issues. The upper portion at the big rock ride was so damaged that it was causing the water to run off of that and wash out the trail just below it. Fortunately someone went in and fixed it. The section just after the large rock ride was not benched in correctly and the original trail was closed off by using sticks. I'm sure that the IMBA training you all have received didn't recommend that. That section was fortunately repaired by someone. The section below that has the same issue. Although not as bad it is still left un repaired. The two curves below that which have been revised slightly are fine. The PINK PAINT used as the finish line is an EYESORE and anyone that leaves something like that on the trail should be out there removing it immediately afterwards. Last years trails are still in place from the Super D. These are already in an area where there is too much trail compaction. Yet they remain and are virtually unused. Last year in November I had to remove tape that was still on the trail from the events. This year there is still tape out there yet. Events are great but learn to do things not to just get it in only to abandon it. It really makes me sad to believe that something a few of us have started could go backwards in the quality of work so quickly. |
robbiex0r
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... The original turn was a poorly constructed corner, it led to people skidding coming into that corner because they couldn't make the high speed off camber turn. It's too bad that some vigilantes think they are entitled to undo the hard work of our volunteers. I'm glad the trail is almost back to having a well built turn. The chicane that replaced the straightaway after that slows newer riders and allows faster riders to ride through without leaving much impact. The most maintenance that will need is a touch of deberming once it gets compacted a bit more. Give it a year and it will look like it's always been there. The big rock was a mess before, and I didn't see any additional damage caused by routing 15 riders through there a handful of times. Pink paint, meh. Give it a winter and you probably won't notice. The rest of us pick up tape too, but we call it "volunteering" and keep the whining to a minimum. The beer helps. I can find many more issues of improper drainage, grade, and trail flow on some of the more established trails. I guess we have a lot of maintenance projects for next year, I hope more volunteers show up! |
UpSideDownBiker
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... Well at least that is an honest answer. I built the original corner that was changed into the Super D mess. I’m also the “vigilante” that constructed the revised version that was removed after being so disgusted with what was there. The original version, put in over three years ago, had almost no skidding into it and it forced people to control their speed into the next curve. The berm that replaced it had erosion issues almost immediately and increased the speed into the next corner creating more skidding. The current corner design is more of a right angle than it was originally and now people skid more than ever. As for the vigilante... Did you even notice the other changes? I don't see HPT working to correct those areas where people remove obstacles that had been put in place to slow people down. They have been constantly removed or routed around for the last few years. Yet when a corner is built properly they change it back to one that isn’t. I'm inclined to think that HPT is embarrassed over someone doing a better job so they changed it back. After all, why else would they leave the damaging sections built hastily. |
the hessian
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... wait a sec....im the vigilante!!! i built that trail around the corner because all of jeds trails are eroding already. if you looked at the trail i built, its built just like the old ones. closing it down out was a mistake. im gonna build more trails to fix all of the erosion. Over the past few years, many of us old timers have become fed up with the organization. its too big, too self absorbed. dont bother slamming me on the internet, call me at 507-884-9982.  |
robbiex0r
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... Willy-nilly trailbuilding is exactly how mountain bikers lose access to land. Thanks for your "contributions" but in the future keep them to yourself. |
Uri Skidowski
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... No I did it! I'm no vigilante. I also think of myself as a volunteer. I didn't complain or ask for compensation for my work. Don't listen to these others. I also have a "vision" of what our single track should be so when you make changes to the trails that change my vision I may occasionally change them back with out warning. Just like what H.P.T has done in numerous places. I am tired of my favorite sections of trails being altered to conform to some other persons "Vision". Build all the jumps and berms you want in the pump track. I'm not saying that these features have no place in our trail system but where does it say that every corner has to be a berm in order to be fast, or to prevent soil erosion, or to build a 12 inch tall bump in front of every corner to slow people down. Learn to ride and it will all come together. The hasty modifications usually seem in most cases to cause more erosion and as upsidedownbiker states to much trail density in places. It makes our trail system seem messy and disorganized. I will continue to "volunteer" but it will be on my own terms. FED UP! |
UpSideDownBiker
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... Willy-nilly... If I had gone by that rule you would have ZERO trails to ride today in this area. You should be more prepared to argue your point with me and understand what I have done to even start the trail system. Willy-nilly is what you guys have done in your continued erosion of building proper trails. What "I" did in the revision was proper and well built. But I guess I'm trying to make my point to people that use sticks across the trail to close them off. That is Willy freakn' nilly. |
the hessian
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... willy-nilly. thats bs. if you are saying the trails ive built or marked out are willy nilly, then you need to do your homework boy. |
DanL
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... Sure is a mouthful from the guy that "started the whole thing, all by himself"... Then quit without notice and left the organization hanging. (Something about people in glass houses comes to mind). |
UpSideDownBiker
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... Glass houses. Hmm... I currently don't live in a house so it couldn't be me. But to reply to those points. 1. I never said I built the trails on my own or HPT. But I did coin the name. I said there would be zero trails there if it wasn't for me. Simply put, no one else was prepared, willing, or capable of doing the job that needed to be done at the time that I did it. But than I guess the rock I would get would be tossed through my glass house. 2. I had planned on HPT as a 5 year project when we started. I went past that by a few. At that point I needed to leave because it was either going to be the same as it had been with me doing too much or it was going to be an organization as it needed. I did not leave you hanging but I left you with the right people to get the job done. 3. Glass houses... I seem to recall a certain president of this organization that removed someone for having a user name that was rarely used but claimed to be offensive. The funny thing about that is the person that removed that removed it was the one that came up with the name and told him to use it as an alias. Well instead of removing just the one user he removed that persons other name too. He also removed every response he had made. It wasn't offensive. It was that he sided with some posts on the forum that wasn't part of the "Agenda". And you wonder why I left you hanging? That was the deciding point. So I guess I'll just wait to see how long it takes me to be removed again because I believe that this Super D has caused more damage to the trail than it was worth by leaving incapable people build poor trails. Either fix the stuff correctly afterwards or better yet, build it properly in the first place. |
Adolf Spokesnapper
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... I guess the moral of the story here is that everyone hosting events at HPT should be responsible for coordinating trail clean up including taking ribbon down and correcting trail damage. As far as the debate about who started HPT, we all know that Bob (Upsidedownbiker) was the main player in getting access to the land and building the initial trails along with some other key local players. Anyone who debates this is merely should a huge lack of disrespect. The interesting part about this is that none of these early local players are involved anymore for a host of reasons, and some of them are looked upon as outcasts or a burden to the organization as a whole. I agree with the statement the Hessian made about HPT getting too big. While I commend those with the vision of creating a large trail network in the area, it is my opinion that HPT has suffered some growing pains and should step back and focus on better maintenance of existing trails while continuing to foster strong relationships with the surrounding land owners and local organizations that are interconnected with HPT. Now is the time to reflect on progress made both ahead and backwards? I challenge the current leadership to take an honest look at everything HPT related that has happened over the past 10 years and see what has worked and what has not. Write these things down, extend a personal invitation to those who were involved 10 years ago to get their honest opinions. Create a 2011 plan, and maybe a 2015 vision. But remember that growth should come in time and not all at once. |
UpSideDownBiker
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... Someone finally makes sense. More what I would have expected instead of a personal attack from some other people. I don't see your name listed in the members area. ? |
ibjed
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... Going back to the actual conversation of the specific areas needing some repair: Area connecting buckthorn, twister, darkside, and deadwood: This area was full of skidding before we did any revisions. It suffered from the same issue 3 times in a row-- using a corner to slow people down. Corners don't slow people down, brakes, uphills, and the inability to pedal slow people down. In this area there are three corners that had a downhill straight section right into a corner. This caused skidding before the corner or skidding in the corner, or widening the trail after the corner from blowing it. This is a characteristic found throughout many of HPT's older trails. The best solution in this area is a complete re-route for the affected corners by slowing down a rider before they get to a corner and bringing the corner radius closer to reputable trail building guidelines. The first corner in question (the one with the “BIG” berm) was and is simply too tight and abrupt to mesh with the speed generated on buckthorn coming into it. We simply bermed 5-7 inches to accommodate the higher speeds (by riders who did not have the trail memorized) that it would see in the super D. This is an acknowledged incomplete fix because the complete fix would make the corner even faster and the following 2-3 turns cannot take any more speed. The “vigilante” re route put in a fall line downhill into an off camber uphill turn (major skidding) then gave an even longer straight away into the turn onto twister. The next area in question would be the chicane near the darkside/pudding/buckthorn intersection. This again was the victim of a downhill straight away into a corner. The chicane used is too tight to accommodate speeds entering it so our solution was to use larger grade reversals prior to it to slow riders (and water ) entering that area rather than abrupt skidding right before the chicane. Two major problems in this area were large pieces of buried concrete in proposed solution and a massive ground bee nest that interrupted work for 3 weeks. Since work was interrupted this area was not finished to satisfaction before the race and so the original path was not reclaimed properly to give time for a more thorough solution which should be a more undulating trail using nicks and grade reversals to drop water and control speed with better transitions into deadwood and darkside. continued |
ibjed
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... Areas on OB-1: Many may note that the rock section was not created until a couple of days before the race because it was never intended to become a permanent part of the trail and thus was a temporary build with poor setup entry and minimal excavation. In the hours following the race we had enough comments and suggestions to leave it open that we decided we could leave it for the rest of the fall and either improve it or close it in the spring depending on feedback. The grade reversals further down OB-1 seem to work well in addressing the overwhelming issue of downhill straight aways right into sharp corners. The retrofits allow riders to taper their speed in a flowing way before diving hard into a switchback. Weather: Since the race we’ve had two months of record fair weather which has increased HPT miles logged more than anticipated. The nice weather did not affect daylight and due to diminishing returns on trailwork nights, they have ceased for the year until next spring. This has probably made maintenance issues all across the trail network more obvious including the ones resulting from the super D updates. Marking Tape: I guess the volunteers who said they’d pull tape on the 12 hour and super D course missed some. Thank you for volunteering to finish the job. I think lots of us do the same thing I know every year I’ve lived in La Crosse I’ve grabbed tape that has been left behind or dropped in the process. Marking paint at finish line: One of our volunteers got really excited about a sweet race and went overboard. It is very bright and obtrusive. I have docked his pay since. The trails were fine, you just need to be a better rider and there won’t be skidding argument: It wasn’t me that I was referring to skidding, it is the innumerable riders who use HPT but do not have every turn memorized and so get excited about a flowy section of trail only to get jammed into a turn that is too sharp and off camber. Remember that the beginner and intermediate rider is a trail user too and they cannot have fun on a trail they’ll stop riding and our sport will not grow. From all those responses it is clear that some of you had bigger issues than erosion and paint. It is obvious some are not happy with the direction of HPT. My suggestion is that if anyone is truly concerned with the overall health of the organization, get involved, get back involved, stay involved. HPTs board is elected and speak for the populous of users. Reminder: go VOTE today! To those who think Jed just does whatever he wants at HPT: Every event and major project I’ve brought to HPT has been researched planned presented at a board meeting voted on and approved. Every change to a trail I’ve ever made has been run done in conjunction with board members and active members of HPT. Every time I propose new feature or change, I go through a decision process: is this for me or is this for HPT? Will it entertain advanced riders? Will beginners or intermediates benefit from it? And How will it age and wear? Guess what, I’m not a professional trail builder; I’ve made some mistakes; soil doesn’t always act as predicted; and sometimes there’s stuff buried right where you wanted your benchcut. I have to say overall HPT has made me feel very welcome and I appreciate all of you who have expressed gratitude for my contributions. |
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